Thatcher, Monckton and Pinochet

Thatcher

OK, I can appreciate that criticism of Margaret Thatcher upsets some people – not speaking ill of the dead or something. Trouble is, one has to choose. A lot of people were hurt by Thatcher’s policies. And she supported some atrocious regimes which were responsible for the suffering, and yes death, of many people.

So, to ignore the bad, and especially to make sweeping claims that Maggie Thatcher was a “champion of the people”, fought for “liberty and democracy,” and “destroyer of tyrannies,” you are actually speaking very ill of many dead. trampling on their memory.

We should not be afraid to mention she was on the wrong side of history when she supported South African apartheid, as the poster above indicates. And frankly, as someone who knew many of the Chilean refugees who came to New Zealand in the mid 1970s, I was extremely offended by her support for the Chilean dictator Pinochet, and don’t think her memory should be sanitised to remove that crime against humanity.

Have a look at Why Would Anyone Celebrate the Death of Margaret Thatcher? Ask a Chilean for more on her support for Pinochet, who was responsible for the torture, death and disappearance of thousands of Chilean democrats.

But we have a more direct link with Maggie Thatcher and her passing at the moment. The ultra conservative Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, who we have described here as the “Potty Peer,” is currently on a New Zealand speaking tour, “The Freedom Tour.” Telling us about the greenie, communist, fascist, tyrannical conspiracy to form a one world government, through the United Nations, and with the help of climate scientists. As he tells it, he and Mrs Thatcher were great pals, and he has written up her obituary on Facebook and the ultra conservative Free Republic (see Lord Monckton writing about Margaret Thatcher). He starts:

It will be from heaven that Margaret Thatcher, the greatest friend the United States ever had, will observe the now-inescapable disintegration of the dismal European tyranny-by-clerk whose failure she foresaw even as it brought her down.

Margaret was unique: a fierce champion of people against government, taxpayers against bureaucrats, workers against unions, Us against Them, free markets against state control, privatization against nationalization, liberty against socialism, democracy against Communism, prosperity against national bankruptcy, law against international terrorism, independence against global governance; a visionary among pygmies; a doer among dreamers; a statesman among politicians; a destroyer of tyrannies from arrogant Argentina via incursive Iraq to the savage Soviet Union.

Much of the rest is really about Christopher Monckton, and what a great bloke he is. He loves to talk about himself, although I would have thought that was bad taste for a eulogy.

He finishes with:

It was not hard to see why Margaret and Denis Thatcher were the most popular couple among the old stagers working at 10 Downing Street since the Macmillans. Now they are reunited; and I pray, in the words of St. Thomas More, that they may be merry in heaven. They have both earned it. Let her be given a state funeral. Nothing less will do.

The Potty Peer seems to have very naive, even childish, religious beliefs. Does he picture Maggie chatting with Dennis on a cloud in heaven? Perhaps he actually includes Pinochet in that picture? And sees himself as part of that merry little group some time in the future?

I am sure he doesn’t include either Nelson Mandela, or Salvador Allende –  the democratically elected president of Chile overthrown by Piochet in 1973.

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49 responses to “Thatcher, Monckton and Pinochet

  1. Good post, but “Christopher Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley” only calls himself a Lord. He is a Viscount and should be addressed as such. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley If we use his false title long enough, it will be believed. You may call me King Steve, but that won’t make me a ruler.

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  2. Thanks Steve – I have removed the offending “Lord.”

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  3. I have removed the offending “Lord.”

    I had no idea you were prepared to go to such sinister lengths, Ken!
    ;)

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  4. Viscount is a Title and not a form of address. Lord Monckton is the appropriate form of address for Viscount Monckton.

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  5. I completely reject the UK’s outlandishly antiquated, third-world peerage system. To me he is Chrisopher Monckton or, if I am feeling charitable, “Mister”.

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  6. Most appropriate is Mad Monckton NMHL (Never Member House of Lords)

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  7. Brandoch Daha

    Also appropriate would be the title of Capering Fool.
    NB: The first “n” in “Monckton” is silent…

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  8. I know Mockton NMHL wrote Maggie a eulogy, I can’t figure out if the link below is the original republished by FoGT, or a spoof.

    http://www.friendsofginandtonic.org/files/26aba3e6afdbcf63a4d79d7bd365d6ef-515.html

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  9. It’s the same one published on WUWT

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  10. Really? complete with the willy warmer in the coat of arms?

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  11. No, the words of the main article were the same. FoGT made the rest up

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  12. Andy, I guess the real originals are on the potty peer’s Facebook page or the ultra conservative Free Republic quoted in my article – wattupwiththat is just a repeater node in the echo chamber.

    Friends of Gin and Tonic is a spoof site devoted to the good lord. In this case the original was spoof enough – it gets the laughs without any alterations to the text.

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  13. The article was about Margaret Thatcher, so I don’t know how denial gets into it

    The article did have its laughs. I liked the one about the vegetables having the steak too.

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  14. This is is a better eulogy than Moncktons one, well written from someone with working class roots

    http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/margaret-thatcher-rip

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  15. I think you are the only one mentioning denial, Andy. My preoccupation is with the torture and murder of Chileans by the Pinochet regime – and Maggie Thatchers support for Pinochet.

    I can understand why Thatcher was hated around the world.

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  16. I am shocked, Andy – how come you are reading blogs written by someone “with working class roots” – whatever that means.

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  17. Ken, I come from Britain. The concept of working class roots is fairly clear. Maggie had good points and bad. she empowered many working class people to shake off state dependency.

    Modern politicians are self serving political pygmies in comparison.

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  18. Strange how those people like Thatcher and Pinochet who encourage the poor to “shake off state dependency” have their own mouths at the trough, isn’t it? Surely she should be having a privatised “state funeral.”

    http://openparachute.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=27467

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  19. I love Thatcher-hating leftists. It just proves that she was right.
    You really all are parasitic talentless vermin

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  20. Andy, having known some of the refugee survivors of those tortured by Pinochet’s regime I just can’t agree. It’s a simple matter of human rights. To have heard the stories of the torture, to witness the tears of friends when they heard their own friends back in Chile had disappeared, to actually hear of the suicides of some of the refugees I knew because of psychological problems arising from the torture I can’t make allowances for people who are so inhumane they would support such terror.

    Thatcher supported Pinochet – even well after he left power. She fought hard to prevent his prosecution. She supported apartheid.

    You might love to climb into bed with fascists and fascist lovers – but I have principles.

    I suppose Thatcher and Pinochet hated and joked about “parasitic talentless vermin”. After all, it’s standard psychology to hate people who you are murdering and torturing.

    You will of course make excuses, just like people still praise Hitler for the autobahns.

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  21. Ken, Thatcher was not a fascist.

    Fascism is a form of collectivism, where the state takes precedence over the rights of the individual.
    How can a proponent of free-market ideology be labelled a faschist?

    I realise that as a Marxist you like to re-invent words and meaning to suit your world view, but I look forward to your response on this one

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  22. No, she wasn’t a fascist – but who the hell said she was. However she did support fascism – or let’s be more specific and leave labels out of it. She supported Pinochet and his regime which was torturing, kidnapping and murdering thousands of Chileans. She supported him against attempts to make him stand trial for these atrocities.

    She opposed democrats fighting to end apartheid in South Africa.

    Funny how these proponents of free market ideology will use the power of the state to impose their Utopias on people who are expected to produce the wealth the ideologies are living off. The anti-democratic and murderous states in Chile and South Africa certainly too precedence over the rights if the individual – in very extreme forms.

    Like most ideologies the “free market” one is just hypocritical. For fools.

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  23. Presumably your ideal society is like North Korea.
    Why don’t you go and live there Ken?

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  24. Now, now, Andy. You are frothing at the mouth, spitting and coming out with rubbish. I don’t have an ideal society – I am a realist, not a utopian.

    But I am definitely opposed to societies and regimes which violate basic human rights. Who murder and torture people.

    I opposed Pinochet and am proud if that. Where did you stand, Andy? Alongside Thatcher, Pinochet and apartheid from the way you are raving at the moment..

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  25. I don’t have any opinion on Pinochet. My memories of Thatcher were of her domestic policies at a time when the UK was on the ropes and being held hostage by trade unions (3 day week, miners strike, etc)

    Like I said, there were bad sides and good sides to Thatcher, like any other politicians. Blair and Brown that followed were far worse, in my view
    They destroyed much of British society, the economy, and led the country to war based on a series of lies.

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  26. You don’t have an opinion on lots of things, do you Andy. But not to have an opinion on Pinochet is disgusting. You either stand with a fascist who committed atrocities, murdered and tortured thousands of people, like Thatcher. Or you stand for human rights.

    To pretend not to “Have an opinion” is just a way of supporting fascism without being honest.

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  27. But not to have an opinion on Pinochet is disgusting.

    Hey Ken, do you have an opinion on the following?

    Hitler.
    Mao.
    Lenin
    Stalin
    Che Guevara
    The EU
    Herman van Rompuy
    Gordon Brown
    Tony Blair
    Angela Merkel

    Please tell me, in detail, your opinion of all these people.
    To not have an opinion on all these people is disgusting

    By the way, when you have done that, I will tell you about my family members that were killed in WW2

    Will you have an opinion on that? Will it be disgusting? Will you prattle on about their human rights?

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  28. Yes, I do – some more definite than others. And I am not going to be diverted from a serious topic.

    I repeat, to claim you have no opinion on the murderous regime of Pinochet, or apartheid South Africa, is dishonest. Why not front up and admit you support such regimes. After all those people in South Africa and Chile were, in your eyes, “parasitic talentless vermin.”

    With such attitudes one can justify, in your own eyes at least, any inhuman act.

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  29. Andy, you could do something to educate yourself by watching Maori TV now – a programme currently describing what happened in Chile.

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  30. That would be nice Ken, but I am in Scotland right now

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  31. I was in Scotland on the first anniversary of the Chilean coup. Heard President Allende’s widow speak at a rally in Glasgow. British democrats identified with her. Thatcher identified with Pinochet and his backers.

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  32. Why not front up and admit you support such regimes

    You really are a piece of work Ken,
    I claim that I have no opinion, because I have not had the time or knowledge to research the issues myself.
    To claim that, because I am self-admittedly ignorant about a particular issue makes me dishonest or tacitly support a particular regime is the worst kind of dishonesty that I know

    I understand that leftist clones have to download their opinions and views and are thus all seemed to “think” the same.

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  33. Ignorant about Chile and South Africa? Pull the other one.

    The whole world knew about those regimes. You are old enough to have experienced the facts of the time.

    We had Chilean refugees in NZ, and in the UK. It was big news. The horror of apartheid was big news.

    Anyone who pretends to be concerned about the violation of human rights in North Korea is surely able to appreciate the horrors of Chile and South Africa.

    To pretend ignorance and still support Thatcher who was an outspoken supporter of those regimes is dishonest.

    If you can’t make up your mind about such basic things you don’t deep serve to have an audience for any of your opinions.

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  34. I realise that as a Marxist you like…

    More Marxists? Good heavens.

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  35. So Ken isn’t a Marxist? What are you then, apart from a tedious, sanctimonious twat who accuses everyone of dishonesty?

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  36. Andy, no argument can be as efficacious as just letting you run off at the mouth. Nothing you have said couldn’t be repeated by three chimps tag teaming a typewriter, taking no more than two hours to do so.

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  37. The Bbc have had some interesting coverage of the issues. In particular around Mandela and Gorbachev

    I won’t be sharing them with you vermin,

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  38. Andy, the use of biological metaphor to dehumanise the opposition or enemy is a common trick of fascists. Are we cockroaches or rats?

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  39. That is funny, rob since Ken uses the word denier all the time.

    Personally I would rather use the word cunt to describe you and Ken.

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  40. Funny too that you think I am a fascist. Do you know what the word actually means Rob?

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  41. I don’t think you are a fascist Andy, I think you are easily confused. Denier is a pejorative relating to someones position on a scientific proposition. Calling someone vermin is an attempt to rhetorically deny them of membership to the human race. Can you see the difference? One attacks an idea, the other the person…

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  42. I think you are easily confused

    I just love sanctimonious smug leftist twats like you Rob

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  43. Andy, I love you too.

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  44. Andy, rather than hang about here attracting attention how about heading back to CCG, from the look of this thread Richard C appears to have no one to talk to:

    http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/04/climate-forecasts-fulfilled-or-what/

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  45. Here’s an idea, Andy. What say we copy some of your most insulting comments here to CCG so your mates can see the foul language you use with others?

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  46. I just love sanctimonious smug leftist twats like you Rob

    Someone needs a hug.

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  47. …from the look of this thread Richard C appears to have no one to talk to…

    Gosh, you weren’t kidding. Seventeen comments?
    The creeping onset of senility? Wierd.

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  48. He’s going to disappear up his own fundamental orifice soon.

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