Hamilton – the water is the problem, not the fluoride!

Posted on August 7, 2013 | 15 Comments

Saw this on Facebook the other night – together with the comment:

“If Hamilton don’t want fluoride in the water, how about we replace the water”

wine

Yes, that would be convenient, wouldn’t it. Instead of Hot and Cold taps, why not Red and White?

However, there is an element of truth in the joke. To some extent, the Waikato water is the problem, rather than fluoride added during fluoridation. Anti-fluoridationists are concentrating on the “evils” of the fluoridation agent, fluorosilicic acid, without realising that the source for our water supply in Hamilton introduces more contamination than the fluoridation chemicals.

Have a look at this graphic showing the levels of arsenic (As) in the Waikato River. Through almost the entire length of the river As levels are several times higher than the recommended maximum concentration for human consumption which is 0.01 parts per million (ppm).

The source water for the Hamilton water treatment plant is 2 or 3 times that recommended maximum As concentration.

Fortunately the treatment process remove about 80% of the As.

Let’s compare that with the contamination introduced by fluoridation chemicals.

A typical concentration of As in fluorosilicic acid is 2 ppm (see Fluoridation – are we dumping toxic metals into our water supplies?  and Water treatment chemicals – why pick on fluoride?). There is a large amount of dilution of the fluorosilicic acid when added to water at the recommended dose (0.7 – 1.0 ppm). The final concentration in our drinking water is 0.0001 ppm As. Several orders of magnitude lower than the maximum recommended concentration for human consumption.

In reality, even after removal of 80% of As from the source water the major contribution to any As contamination in Hamilton’s public water supply is the Waikato River itself – not the fluoridation chemicals. By several orders of magnitude.

  Original Arsenic (ppm As) Dilution Contribution to finished water (ppm)
Recommended maximum As (ppm)     0.01
Waikato River water ~0.025 None ~0.005
Fluorosilicic acid 2* ~200,000 ~0.0001

* see Fluoridation – are we dumping toxic metals into our water supplies?  and Water treatment chemicals – why pick on fluoride?

Haven’t the Hamilton anti-fluoridation campaigners got their priorities wrong when they complain about contamination of the fluoridation chemicals used?

See also:

Making sense of fluoride Facebook page
Other Fluoridation articles

This entry was posted in city council, Environment and Ecology, New Zealand, SciBlogs, science, Science and Society and tagged , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

15 responses to “Hamilton – the water is the problem, not the fluoride!”

  1. James H | August 8, 2013 at 8:28 am |

    Great argument – you are being poisoned anyway- so you might as well drink the fluoride poison as well. Kind of like – well we are going to invade your Country anyway, so we might as well use depleted uranium. God, please help us remove your earth of these criminals/ sick people.

    Like

  2. Ken | August 8, 2013 at 8:43 am |

    Amazing for you to draw that conclusion, isn’t it James?

    You are assuming F is a poison when in fact it is a normal constituent of all apatites – including your bones and teeth.. Problems only arise with deficiency or excess – not applicable here.

    But the anti-fluoridationists claim that the fluoridation chemicals contain dangerous levels of arsenic. I have shown they don’t – but Waikato source water does.

    Sort of strange people aren’t up in arms about the real source of As contamination, isn’t it? Why are they silent in that?

    Like

  3. James H | August 8, 2013 at 9:11 am |

    26 different Harvard Studies thus far- all proving Fluoride lowers I.Q and gives people brain damage. Funny how you guys (and the criminals putting this stuff in the water) never mention those studies. Google it. Its there for all to see, no matter how hard you try to confuse the issue. “Harvard Study Fluoride”. It was the Nazi regime who first experimented with fluoride in water supplies- to dumb everyone down and get them to go along with the Fascist takeover. As we help invade Syria while they steal our assets and spy on us back home – ring any bells? Its time to wake up NZ- and getting this poison out of our water is the first step. We do NOT want to go along with the Fourth Reich any longer thank you for very much.

    Like

  4. Ken | August 8, 2013 at 9:40 am |

    Attack of the Lizard men again, is it James?

    You conspiracy theorists discredit yourselves the moment you open your mouths with rubbish like that. So keep it up. We will keep reeling out the rope for you.

    Like

  5. alison | August 8, 2013 at 2:22 pm |

    26 different Harvard Studies thus far- all proving Fluoride lowers I.Q and gives people brain damage.
    James, I seem to remember pointing this out to you before, but the Harvard meta-analysis shows quite clearly that fluoride at the concentrations found in municipal water supplies has NO detrimental effect on IQ.
    As for your claim that the Nazis used fluoride as a mind control tool – you really need to make yourself more familiar with snopes.com. There is zero evidence in support of your claim (and I invoke Godwin’s Law).

    Like

  6. Andy | August 8, 2013 at 8:07 pm |

    Why are we discussing this when climate change is the biggest crisis facing humanity?

    Who actually cares about dental health?

    Would someone please think of the children?

    Every scientific academy on the planet agrees

    The Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.
    The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
    Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. Studying these climate data collected over many years reveal the signals of a changing climate.

    Certain facts about Earth’s climate are not in dispute:
    ■ The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.
    ■ Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in solar output, in the Earth’s orbit, and in greenhouse gas levels. They also show that in the past, large changes in climate have happened very quickly, geologically-speaking: in tens of years, not in millions or even thousands.

    Scientific Consensus
    Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.

    The evidence for rapid climate change is compe
    The Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.
    The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
    Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. Studying these climate data collected over many years reveal the signals of a changing climate.

    Certain facts about Earth’s climate are not in dispute:
    ■ The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.
    ■ Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in solar output, in the Earth’s orbit, and in greenhouse gas levels. They also show that in the past, large changes in climate have happened very quickly, geologically-speaking: in tens of years, not in millions or even thousands.

    Scientific Consensus
    Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.

    The evidence for rapid climate change is compe
    The Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.
    The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
    Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. Studying these climate data collected over many years reveal the signals of a changing climate.

    Certain facts about Earth’s climate are not in dispute:
    ■ The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.
    ■ Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in solar output, in the Earth’s orbit, and in greenhouse gas levels. They also show that in the past, large changes in climate have happened very quickly, geologically-speaking: in tens of years, not in millions or even thousands.

    Scientific Consensus
    Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.

    The evidence for rapid climate change is compe
    The Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.
    The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
    Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. Studying these climate data collected over many years reveal the signals of a changing climate.

    Certain facts about Earth’s climate are not in dispute:
    ■ The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.
    ■ Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in solar output, in the Earth’s orbit, and in greenhouse gas levels. They also show that in the past, large changes in climate have happened very quickly, geologically-speaking: in tens of years, not in millions or even thousands.

    Scientific Consensus
    Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.

    The evidence for rapid climate change is compe
    The Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.
    The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
    Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. Studying these climate data collected over many years reveal the signals of a changing climate.

    Certain facts about Earth’s climate are not in dispute:
    ■ The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.
    ■ Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in solar output, in the Earth’s orbit, and in greenhouse gas levels. They also show that in the past, large changes in climate have happened very quickly, geologically-speaking: in tens of years, not in millions or even thousands.

    Scientific Consensus
    Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.

    The evidence for rapid climate change is compe
    The Earth’s climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 650,000 years there have been seven cycles of glacial advance and retreat, with the abrupt end of the last ice age about 7,000 years ago marking the beginning of the modern climate era — and of human civilization. Most of these climate changes are attributed to very small variations in Earth’s orbit that change the amount of solar energy our planet receives.
    The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is very likely human-induced and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented in the past 1,300 years.
    Earth-orbiting satellites and other technological advances have enabled scientists to see the big picture, collecting many different types of information about our planet and its climate on a global scale. Studying these climate data collected over many years reveal the signals of a changing climate.

    Certain facts about Earth’s climate are not in dispute:
    ■ The heat-trapping nature of carbon dioxide and other gases was demonstrated in the mid-19th century. Their ability to affect the transfer of infrared energy through the atmosphere is the scientific basis of many instruments flown by NASA. Increased levels of greenhouse gases must cause the Earth to warm in response.
    ■ Ice cores drawn from Greenland, Antarctica, and tropical mountain glaciers show that the Earth’s climate responds to changes in solar output, in the Earth’s orbit, and in greenhouse gas levels. They also show that in the past, large changes in climate have happened very quickly, geologically-speaking: in tens of years, not in millions or even thousands.

    Scientific Consensus
    Ninety-seven percent of climate scientists agree that climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities, and most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.

    The evidence for rapid climate change is compe

    Like

  7. Andy | August 8, 2013 at 8:09 pm |

    Just to show Cedric I can do cut and paste trolling too!
    Have a nice day
    (sent from my iPhone)

    Like

  8. Ken | August 8, 2013 at 8:12 pm |

    Andy, I am giving you a bit pf enforced time out. Give you a chance to calm down.

    Like

  9. Cedric Katesby | August 8, 2013 at 8:24 pm |

    Andy Scrase is upset. I still don’t care.
    (..double checks..)
    Nope, don’t care.

    Andy, I am giving you a bit pf enforced time out…

    He can always go back to his sock-puppeting. It’s not like he’s got anything else. I wonder if his antics has gotten him banned or “timed-out” from other places?
    Wouldn’t surprise me at all. It’s the usual M.O of people like him.

    Like

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